Inspired by Christianity

Posted on 4.08.2010

I was talking to my colleague Scott today.

At one point I said this:

"Honestly Scott, I don't think I know any Christians. Most of the people I know are inspired by Christianity. Conceptually, they think living like Christ is a great idea. But I don't think I know any actual Christians."

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40 thoughts on “Inspired by Christianity”

  3. this sounds a lot like something Peter Rollins says. When a Christian asks him if he believes in God he says no, because belief in God necessarily involves attempting to live like God, which he doesn't do. Heady argument, but I think I (sorta) see where he's coming from.

  8. Do you mean you don't know any penniless, itinerant preachers who go around performing miracles, aggravating the religious authorities, dying and then rising from the dead?

    Seriously, though, could any real person possibly meet whatever criteria you have in mind?

  9. If Jesus came back a la The Grand Inquisitor, how would we recognize him--if not accompanied by miracles--and how would a "typical" Christian respond to him--both if recognized and if not...?

    It's impossible to know, but something like the parable of the rich young ruler comes to me. Which is to say, that I think I agree with you, Richard.

    Perhaps true discipleship is a very rare human flowering. What then? Where does that put the rest of us?

  10. To clarify a bit in light of some or your questions, comments or concerns.

    My comment was an attempt at wry humor using hyperbole. The observation I was making is that many Christian don't act, well, Christian. That when push comes to shove few of us take up the cross, die to self, wash feet, turn the other cheek, love our enemies, forgive 70 times 7, care for the poor, or visit the sick or those in prison.

  11. So, then, in light of the most recent comment, Mr. Beck, if we take Paul seriously in 2 Cor. 12:5 ("Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?) or, even, Jesus when he teaches on the nature of true discipleship in John (those who are truly disciples follow in obedience and love), if our lives are inconsistent with the teachings/law of Christ and are NOT conformed to a Gospel centered life, are we really part of God's redemptive narrative? If our lives have been so unchanged that we remain centered on self (an idolater of the worst kind), are we really believers? Furthermore, is there such thing as a "nominal" Christian or is "nominal" Christianity just a label that makes those who are less than committed feel "better" about not doing all that is asked of them in accordance with their profession of being a disciple? Much to ponder.

  12. Just a note, my previous comment is not advocating a here and now "perfection," merely a recognition that for one to be identified as a disciple, he/she must be consistently (rather than inconsistently) exhibiting the traits of a disciple in accordance with a new life in Christ. Furthermore, it is a recognition that one who is a disciple is committed to participating in their sanctification as sanctification is not just something that "happens" to us, but is a process in which we do strive, labor, and fight to be who God has called us to be and positionally established us to be "in Christ."

  13. I would also agree with Tracy that discipleship is a "rare human flowering" as Jesus himself in Matt. 7 makes it very clear that there are a great many who claim to follow or do their deeds under false pretenses and will not, in the end,receive an inheritance in the kingdom of God.
    The looming question is then, what are we building our lives on? The Gospel of Jesus Christ which is through his atoning work on the cross, thereby, recognizing that he died our death and paid the penalty that was ours to pay which commends us to truly love God with all our being and love others as well? Or are we building upon "sand," as Jesus so aptly contrasts the two foundations of rock and sand in Matt. 7, which will wash out from under one who has pretentiously built? We must expose our hearts to God's word and God's Word alone (Sola Scriptura) and, then, examine our hearts in light of what is exposed, confessing and repenting (turning from sin, no longer walking in "old" ways).

  14. "Nothing is so deadening to the divine as an habitual dealing with the outsides of holy things." G.MacDonald

  15. Speaking of real people, I have a hard time believing that Brian is a real person and not a Stone-Campbell caricature.

    It would only be slightly more amusing if he were a real person ... and on ACU's board of trustees.

  17. On second thought, the debate over who is "in" (a Christian) or who is "out" (not a christian) has been the division of the church over eons.

    "Confessional Christianity" would be considered "nominal Christianity" by those 'hard-liners" who are "really the bride of Christ"/diciples of Christ :). Be forewarned that cults are always desirous to have authority over one's conscience, and life, as they are authoritarian "systems". And leadership are the "perfected ones" (in however that is defined).

  18. I have a secret sympathy for those crazy snake-handling churches. Hey, at least they're trying.

  19. I think you need to rethink your definition of "Christian." Fortunately, the Bible tells that we are defined not by what we do (lest we should boast), but what Christ does for us.

  20. In my experience, the most Christ-like in my acquaintance are the most easily overlooked. Something about giving in secret and praying in closets. ;)

  21. Let's take a couple of the teachings of Jesus and see how they compare to what the religious right demonstrate in their life and politics.
    Jesus advocated for the poor.
    He advocated for the sick.
    He denounced the love of money.
    Let's see how this compares to conservative Christian thinking.
    They hate paying taxes that go to help anyone other than themselves. They hate entitlement programs and would rather see people do for themselves.
    They are against Obama care.
    They, again, hate paying taxes that they see as robbing them of what they rightfully earned. They are part of America's consumer culture to such a degree that they, at times, preach a prosperity gospel that emphasizes that material things are a blessing from God.
    That is a short list of differences I see between the teachings of Jesus and what Christians in America manifest. Thank God I don't see some of the more difficult teachings followed to the letter though. Wait, you say there are Christian militias that are doing exactly that? Crap.

  22. The "disciples" in the text were knuckle-heads despite hanging out with Jesus Himself for those 3 years. Their behavior and actions during the process of His passion revealed that they didn't get it.

    The Holy Spirit came down to inagurate the new covenant (Acts ch 2 but instead the church I used to go to fetishes the spritual gifts, particularly tongues) and so we might assume those disciples (now apostles) conducted the remainder of their lives at a new "Christian" level. It wasn't until perhaps a couple of decades later that they actually wrote what is now the "New Testament".

    My question here is how "Christian" did these
    disciples behave from the time of becoming "Spirit-filled" until their martyrdom.

    Gary Y.

  23. Matthew and Angie:

    I am not a "Stone-Campbell caricature." I am, indeed a real person. I am a student at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary preparing to either: (a) serve in a pastoral role in a local church or (b) serve in some manner of chaplaincy in law enforcement/criminal justice, hospitals, or the prison system. I knew, absolutely, that their would be people out their who would either criticize my reflection, agree with it, or just discount it, I accept that. But what I will refuse to tolerate of myself or others who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ, is the acceptance of "nominal" Christianity or "carnal" Christianity, whereby, we blatantly excuse ourselves on a daily basis from following the very Lord we profess allegiance to. Where we daily deny Christ and others according to our speech and actions, Christ, very clearly, calls us to a life of self-denial and death to our sinful selves. If we remain in self-centered ways, can we HONESTLY uphold our false claim to be believers? NO!! Following Christ, as exhibited by his disciples following the resurrection, reflects a truly changed heart and mind, a life of self-sacrifice, and a life that dies to self in a sense of putting others ahead of self as well as the most extreme possibility of physical death, martyrdom. My point, the standard set by Jesus Christ and those who were, truly, his disciples, those that did not abandon him, was high. We, however, in our western, American, super-individualized, "victimized," lazy, excuse-ridden society, play fast and loose with "discipleship" while thinking, speaking or acting far too often for the sake of a genuine love for God or for those around us that are in need of Jesus Christ as their Lord or a secondary need of food, clothing, shelter, etc.
    Again, this is not from some ACU trustee who wanted to post a comment for the sake of manipulating or guilting the consciences of the students, I deplore such things as I have seen them take place at the institution which I attend. If you don't take my comments seriously in light of the Gospels, the Pauline Epistles or the General Epistles, I think you should think more seriously about your claim to discipleship? Posing such a question has nothing to do with my want for authority over someone's life as it does for my concern for your certainty that what you follow is not some self-concocted, false, foolish way of life as opposed to one that honors and glorifies God as well as is truly under the Lordship and leadership of Jesus Christ. If one cannot be sure of such things, their eternal security is in question and judgment, rather than grace could be what is awaiting such a one. Love, then, not authority is my motivation.

  24. In my last comment, I mispoke writing that we "play fast and loose with discipleship while thinking, speaking or acting far too often in neglect of a genuine love for God or for those around us that are in need of Jesus Christ as their Lord, etc., etc."

  26. Having thought more about my previous posts, my responses, and the responses of others I want to clarify two things. First, I do not stand on a "holy hill" to throw stones at others for I am far to often guilty of taking my claim to follow Jesus too lightly. Second, it was not my intent to call Dr. Beck into question or criticize him in any of my posts. It was my intent to raise honest, challenging, admonishing questions so that those of us who do claim to follow Christ would test ourselves in light of God's Word so that we might live as workmen approved by God, diligently or responsibly handling His Word (2 Tim. 2:15) as opposed to standing ashamed before God. And for those who might pretentiously claim to follow Christ based on a false confidence in something other than Christ and Christ alone, my hope is that there might be some conviction or jolt of conscience that might result in a newfound relationship with Christ and with His body, the church.

  27. @Brian

    Okey dokey. If you say you're a real person, I believe you. That board-member bit was kind of tongue-in-cheek, anyhow.

    I just found it kind of surprising that someone would pop in and start waving "Sola Scriptura" around like that. It was kind of like a guy walking into a gay bar wearing a swastika: you gotta figure he's ignorant of the nature of the establishment, or he's looking for a fight.

  28. Matthew: I realize the comment about being a board member was, likely, "tongue-in-cheek," as you say.

    What I find interesting is that there would be surprise at someone "waving 'Sola Scriptura' around" when the whole context of the conversation is couched, squarely, in the Christian faith, and, should, most appropriately, be squared in light of what Scripture says, not my opinion, your opinion, or anyone else's opinion. I am curious as to what you mean in reference to my possible "ignorance of the nature of the establishment?" Are you referring to ACU, society in general or some other "establishment?" I cannot say that it is my intent, per say, to look for a fight; however, what I have found to be a worthy cause among believers is sounding a voice for a return to living, believing, preaching, teaching, "contending" (as Paul writes), for sound doctrine (not denominationalism, sound biblical doctrine). Depending on your answer to the reference on the establishment, I can say that I am well aware of the attitudes of many believers, many here at SWBTS, that like to add to the Scriptures, blunt the authority of the Scriptures, or in a "round about way," avoid them all-together while readily swallowing the varied and diverse things that this world calls wise, yet, Scripture blatantly identifies as foolish.

  29. Matthew:

    I'm an idiot. Unless you meant otherwise, I just realized that your reference to "the establishment" was simply part of your metaphor and probably nothing else. If there was something more behind it, I would still be interested in your explanation; however, despite my seeming "dense" nature at the moment, I get it.

  30. Matthew:
    Having read some of the posts on your blog and some of the other posts on this one, I understand the nature of your illustration even more. However, this makes my questions and points all the more significant.
    By the way, comparing me, or anyone else that would hold to Sola Scriptura to someone wearing a Swastika is a long stretch, if not unattainable stretch. Evidently, there must be some truth in the observation that I was "ignorant of the nature of the establishment." Nonetheless, whether I hold the same views as those in the establishment, I will entertain honest dialogue when I can without shame for the convictions or understanding that I hold of God, His Word, the life and work of Christ, the nature of man or the reality of a heaven and hell. Should you want to entertain further discussion without taking up more of Dr. Beck's blog, you can visit, http://all4hisglory-brian.blogspot.com/.

  31. Um, back to the topic. I'm betting that Sunday lunch waiters and waitresses would agree with you, Dr. Beck, per your tipping article from a while back.

    And as a recovering, now-ex Southern Baptist myself (after more than 4 decades), it's easy to see where being vehemently and verbosely "right" gets mistaken for being "light."

    My deep condolences on ACU's loss.

  32. @Brian

    You're right, the white-supremacy association was probably over the top. What I was trying to evoke, though, was that a lot of the people around here have been beat on by doctrinally arrogant types like yourself (see Patricia's comment, above), and therefore, no matter how nice a person you really are, your absolute conviction in your own understanding of (the Bible, God, whatever) means you're likely to be painted with the "abuser" brush.

  33. As an ex-Baptist of 59 years, a deacon for 17+ years, I find Brian's position particularly distasteful.

  34. Hello Brian,

    I could use your help here:
    This was something I asked earlier:
    'My question here is how "Christian" did these
    disciples behave from the time of becoming "Spirit-filled" until their martyrdom.'

    And an excerpt of your response immediately following, you said:

    "Following Christ, as exhibited by his disciples following the resurrection, reflects a truly changed heart and mind, a life of self-sacrifice, and a life that dies to self in a sense of putting others ahead of self as well as the most extreme possibility of physical death, martyrdom."

    Going by Scripture alone 'Sola Scriptura',
    please share what you find in regards to
    the "disciples" post-resurrection behavior, conduct, and attitude that proves the above.

    IMHO, there isn't too much other than a few
    recorded incidents (post new covenant advent):

    Acts 15 (as reported by Dr. Luke):
    Paul and Barnabas disputing (about Mark) to
    the point of separation.

    Acts 24:
    Paul exercises his rights as a Roman citizen.
    (I thought Paul "trusted God").

    Galatians 2:
    Paul gets in Peter's face, busting Peter for his sudden hypocricy before the Gentiles (ham stuck in Peter's teeth and all).

    Your specific illustrations as to how the
    post-resurrection (en route to martyrdom) disciples carried themselves would be a great help here in modeling what "Christian" behavior might be (i.e. "...a truly changed heart and mind, a life of self-sacrifice, and a life that dies to self...")

    Your input is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks again!

    Gary Y.

  35. Gary Y.:

    I would like very much to address your question. In response, I would like to pose a question to you. Would it be agreeable to you for me to address your question through a series of blog posts on my blog so that I do not write a novel on Dr. Beck's blog?

    If you would entertain this suggestion, I would gladly do so and would like to address your question through a series of responses. I would like to take this approach, a series of responses, so that I may address each issue you have raised in their immediate contexts so further understanding may be drawn from what we see happening in the Scripture. What do you say?

    I will add though that it may take me a couple of weeks to get started as I am trying to finish a paper for school and expecting the birth of our second child, tomorrow morning (my wife is being induced).

  36. Gary Y:

    By the way, though I am part of a generation that should be familiar with the acronyms of the texting/blogging world, could you enlighten me as to what IMHO means?

  37. Don:

    Question: since when are questions/statements that are reflective of Scripture "distasteful"? Please inform me as to what, exactly, I have written that is in bad taste. My questions/statements are direct and, I think/hope, set in a proper context so as to be clear and unmistaken. If something I have written is, truly, in bad taste, I'll own it and move on.

    Furthermore, I find it interesting that only one person (Gary Y) of everyone who has responded, directly, to my comments has sought to respond to me in a "tasteful" manner. Gary Y posed a thoughtful, delineated request for dialogue in response to some of my comments that, as best I can see (though it may be) unpretentious. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until otherwise proven.

    It seems to me that some of the people who follow this blog suffer from the same problem I find myself suffering from which is being stuck in the "bubble." By that I mean, more often than not, I am around people who are like minded and, when I have the occasion to speak or dialogue with someone of a different mindset, I either jump to conclusions without thoughtfully considering the proposition(s) before me and go on the defensive or I fail to listen/think as closely as I should about what the differing party is saying. I have, quite fortunately, had the pleasure and joy of speaking/dialoguing with some of a differing view that actually shed light on the truth of Scripture in such a way that I was able to benefit and grow in some manner of understanding or application.

  38. Hello Brian,

    IMO - in my opinion
    IMHO - in my humble opinion
    (Even here I could be wrong on these acronyms)
    Yeah I understand - I'm not too hip with all the blog acronyms myself - no problem.

    To give an honest preface, I feel the same way the others you referred to here feel so I'm actually no different in that regard.

    Also, I am 70% convinced of a Universal Salvation being the end vs. a Partial Salvation
    and particularly resistant to the doctrine of Eternal Torment for MOST of humanity. I'm speaking only for myself and no one else here. That's important for me to lay on the table.

    And you're right - we both don't want to eat up Dr. Beck's blog here (especially myself since I am a regular), so this will be my final 2 cents - you can have the last say - no problem.

    I wouldn't have posted at all here except the last paragraph in your post went like this:

    "I think you should think more seriously about your claim to discipleship? Posing such a question has nothing to do with my want for authority over someone's life as it does for my concern for your certainty that what you follow is not some self-concocted, false, foolish way of life as opposed to one that honors and glorifies God as well as is truly under the Lordship and leadership of Jesus Christ. If one cannot be sure of such things, their eternal security is in question and judgment, rather than grace could be what is awaiting such a one. Love, then, not authority is my motivation.
    "

    Because eternal destinies for ALL are allegedly at stake (as implied above) that warrants holding you to present very clear definition on the following - we need to understand these
    very, very well if our eternal destiny lies in the balance:

    "...my concern for your certainty that what you follow is not some self-concocted, false, foolish way of life as opposed to one that honors and glorifies God..."

    "...truly under the Lordship and leadership of Jesus Christ..."

    "If one cannot be sure of such things, their eternal security is in question ..."

    Thank you again Brian!
    I definitely owed you the response you requested. But this will again be my last post HERE in this article. Have a good day sir!

    Gary Y.

  39. Gary Y.:

    Thank you again for thoughtfully questioning my remarks. For the sake of brevity, please keep an eye on my blog as some of the questions/issues you have raised I have also been considering addressing in my blog through the course of the upcoming summer. I would also be happy to dialogue with you via e-mail if that is acceptable to you. You can visit my blog and initiate e-mail contact via: http://all4hisglory-brian.blogspot.com/. To initiate e-mail contact simply post a comment through one of my posts and I will respond. Make sure you sign Gary Y. so I will recognize you.

  40. I have just stumbled across this blog - VERY interesting.
    I was intrigued and, to be honest, rather challenged by this observation of yours. I am afraid to say that for me and those I see around me it rings painfully true...

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