I accepted an invitation from Two Friars and a Fool to engage in a dialogue with Dr. Daniel Kirk, Professor of New Testament at Fuller Theological Seminary. Daniel also hosts an excellent blog--Storied Theology.
Two Friars and a Fool asked Daniel and I to engage in a bit of narrative theology. Specifically, we were tasked with answering the question "What is the best ending to the Christian story?" The prompt is trying to address a lot of the conversation surrounding the publication of Rob Bell's Love Wins. In this discussion I'm articulating an universalist reading of the "best ending" and Daniel is articulating a more traditional (non-universalist) ending.
The discussion will unfold over the coming days. To start, both Daniel and I have written a short essay articulating our visions of the "best ending." My essay starts us off and is up now at Two Friars and a Fool. Daniel's essay will follow. We then have responses to each other's essays. The schedule for the dialogue:
Tuesday, July 12: Beck Essay "Universal Reconciliation & the Christological Hymns"At the end of each essay and response Two Friars and a Fool will be posting their video reactions, adding their own insights and perspectives. With all five of us in play it should be a really interesting conversation. I'm mainly going to be following the conversation at Two Friars and a Fool. So if you post a comment/response here, please post it over there as well.
Friday, July 15: Kirk Essay "A Non-Universal Story"
Tuesday, July 19: Kirk Response "Beautiful Endings"
Friday, July 22: Beck Response "Radical Continuity"
Finally, on a personal note, this whole experience scared the crap out of me. I kept asking myself, "Richard, how did you end up in a dialogue about eschatology with a professor in New Testament? Doesn't seem like a good idea..."
But I shouldn't have worried. Daniel was/is a gracious and insightful conversation partner. So my thanks to him and to Two Friars and Fool for hosting the conversation and inviting me to participate.
As a quiet fan of both Daniel's and your own blogs, all I can say is "Yes! Yes! Yes!"
Also since I am posting, I want to say that your book "Unclean" and your blog in general has changed my entire perspective on psychology. Despite the fact that my wife has a BA in psychology, I've always been more than a little bit skeptical about the science of psychology. Now I am a lot more sympathetic to why she wanted to pursue that degree and how helpful it can be in developing a robust and fruitful Kingdom life. We both can't thank you enough.
Dr. Beck, I have written in my own blog regarding your post there. It is specifically about the aesthetic question of truth in Christian Theology: http://bit.ly/psdecU
Seduced by the eros of the artistic? – as a means to escape ends? – here and now ends?With extreme crushing poverty – one the greatest wealth inequalities known (to our generation) – how easy and escapist it is to navel gaze and ruminate about the "end"? The preoccupation with the aesthetic – the cajoled aesthetic and the safely scuttled aesthetic – beautification scuttled off into to some safe and abstract future time – all this is hardly less than the current arguments of IMF bankers and other rational market economists who keep telling us of the aesthetic beauty and certainty of their markets – who keep telling us to wait for some eventual "end" – when the beautiful mind of the beautiful market will correct itself – over a long enough period of time.Kundera called this testaments betrayed – by abstraction. Perverse refusal to deal with here and now.The end is already upon us – here and now – with such escape artistry.The end is here – the end of dealing with the world as it is. Cheers Jim(I love Beck – just a little shove back – he needs to get the hell off of campus and pick produce with migrant workers a little – cheers!)
With extreme crushing poverty – one the greatest wealth inequalities known (to our generation) – how easy and escapist it is to navel gaze and ruminate about the "end"?
The preoccupation with the aesthetic – the cajoled aesthetic and the safely scuttled aesthetic – beautification scuttled off into to some safe and abstract future time – all this is hardly less than the current arguments of IMF bankers and other rational market economists who keep telling us of the aesthetic beauty and certainty of their markets – who keep telling us to wait for some eventual "end" – when the beautiful mind of the beautiful market will correct itself – over a long enough period of time.
Kundera called this testaments betrayed – by abstraction. Perverse refusal to deal with here and now.
The end is already upon us – here and now – with such escape artistry.
The end is here – the end of dealing with the world as it is.
Cheers
Jim
(I love Beck – just a little shove back – he needs to get the hell off of campus and pick produce with migrant workers a little – cheers!)
... this SUCKS! ... my post posted perfectly formatted at "Two Friars" -- http://twofriarsandafool.com/2011/07/universal-reconciliation-and-the-christological-hymns/ -- another Disqus forum -- but not here! What the? ... Beats me ...
Hi Jim,
I gave a reply over at Two Friars. Thanks for your pushback.
We can't say enough how pleased we are that you agreed to participate in this discussion.
... just maximizing your utility there Richard ... :) .. Cheers, Jim
I look forward to your essays, wishing only that you would employ a copy editor. Sigh.
Yeah.
I love having my utility maximized! But it sounds like sin...
Hi John,
Thanks so much for the encouragement. It is much appreciated.
Hi Joshua,
Thanks for posting your link. I really like your connecting aesthetics with the Christian mystical tradition.
Richard, help. Tried to find your email. To keep this out of the blog. Asking permission to use your photo. Comparing you favorably to hippie, science expert theologian, Langdon Gilkey – here – "Richard Beck - Mr. Clean of the Apocalypse? Some Down, Dirty, and Unclean Questions for Richard Beck."
See e.g.,
http://randomarrow.blogspot.com/
... may I use your photo?
Jim
Sure thing.
... thank you, will finish my questions asap (late evening) ... ~ Jim
Aric, I spent a little time exploring "Two Friars and a Fool," and I loved it! Why haven't you shared before? I like the medieval design, too. Anyway, THANK YOU, and I think this is going to be a wonderfully interesting debate/series.
Patricia
Glad you like it. We're working pretty hard on making it a place people like to come. Having quality contributors like Dr Beck & Dr Kirk aids immensely.
Richard, thinking. Maybe I’ll do fuller review of Unclean? Across weeks or so? One blog post at a time? Not just my current heuristic questions to the book. Kinda busy workload. Thinking e.g., disgust and – Darwin (genetics, epigenetics, evo-psych, altruism, self-deception, to neuroscience - Damasio elaborating James,) to economics (heterodox, e.g., Ariely on irrational) to politics (DS Wilson on group selection and Christians, Nussbaum v. Kass, evolutionary ‘Social Contract’). Constant ambient questions. But! – context of praxis. I’m interested in practice (per my profile). Especially casework with clergy. Synoptic, yeah, but subject – disgust – as it cuts across matrices (egoistic / cooperative / altruistic / revengeful) might be helpful in practice! I’m not interested in where you fit among academics in the Library of Congress. Let J Curve talking heads do your meta-taxa. Please see, shot across the bow (first entry after main article),
http://randomarrow.blogspot.com/2011/07/richard-beck-mr-clean-of-apocalypse.html No need to reply if it’s not interesting. No expectations. May do this for myself – if I catch the virus. I don’t know how much heavy lifting I’ll want to do if the bug bites. Nussbaum’s Love’s Knowledge already in my viral favorites. Will look back here. Cheers ~ Jim
Aric, I’m not with Patricia. Kinda bent and jealous. You guys created the coolest blog name in the universe! ~ Jim
Hi Jim,
I tried to post an answer to the question you posed on your blog but your blog only allows comments from team members of the blog. So, I'll post my reply here:
Q: How do disgust dynamics interact dynamically with all the rest of – trust?
A: In the book I review a lot of data that suggests that disgust directed at others signals a pretty severe failure of human relationality. Disgust suggests we find the other less than human, subhuman even. More, contempt is a parallel emotion. Darwin noted the similar facial features between disgust and contempt. So emotions of superiority, contempt, or disdain for others signals a similar failure. For example, John Gottman has done research predicting divorce based upon the emotions a couple display in a tense interaction. His conclusion? Of all the emotions, disgust and contempt were the best predictors of subsequent divorce. I think a similar pattern would hold in predicting failures of trust in other relationships.
Well-said. The most "beautiful" ending to the story, the one that makes sense in the context of the whole story -- I like that way of explaining this view.