Luke and I also talk about free will, the weakness of God, the problem of evil, Lady Gaga, pole vaulting, tattoos, and the benefits of guilt.
Among other things.
And speaking about progressive Christians and the powers, yesterday Fred Clark posted some very insightful comments in two posts giving me some pushback about my recent post Christus Victor and Progressive Christianity.
See Fred's first post 'Spiritual bondage to the powers of death’: Why Screwtape should’ve read some James Cone and his follow-up post ‘You have to keep scooping out of the boat’: More on progressive Christianity and sin in response to a clarification I offered.
Enjoy!
I'm sorry, Richard. But I have to confess that I laughed at the comment, "Beck is a poorly-wiped asshole, dribbling remnants of Taco Bell." As a psychologist, do you have any tips on how I can erase that image from my mind now? :)
I was pretty excited about that comment. It's so epic.
So interesting that I wrote up this childish invective before I listened to your interview with Nuke Norsworthy, which clarified some things.
But being that You are the provocator of this question, it stands to reason that "Christus Victor" would be an Atonement Theory that would not click comfortably into your own psychoanalytic paradigm. After all, you have stated on manly occasions here, that you have problems with believing in a “Personal Devil". The irreconcilable conundrum of trying to merge a scientifically bound psychotherapeutic aesthetic, with a “Spiritual Warfare World View”, seems almost schizophrenic on some levels. But knowing that “Evil” can take the form of an Angel, a Serpent and even a Therapist, we see clearly how adaptively nefarious the “Enemy’s” tactics can be! But sometimes these tactics are beyond our perceptive capabilities -
"Evil is unintelligible. It is just a thing in itself, like boarding a crowded commuter train wearing only a giant boa constrictor. There is no context which would make it explicable." - Terry Eagleton
The question I have, is - "Why does it need to be one way or the other"? The various Atonement Theories out there are not mutually exclusive and often easily augment each other very amicably. It often just depends on our own selective choice of scripture to simply backup the particular theory we want to showcase. An integration of atonement scenarios needs to be developed and formulated especially one that deals clearly with the issue of the “Free-will” of man –
which I realize from your discussion is a “slippery concept” which you’re not comfortable having everything hinge on – reference on Adina Roskies studies and philosophy. I can only imagine though the moments of silence in the car as Boyd and you drove back and forth, as these issues were bantered around. Like Thomas in scripture, we want to put our finger into the side of “demonology” in order to believe it’s real – but this is exactly what our “Adversary” doesn’t want us to experience – remaining imbedded, covert and ephemeral, keeps the doubts floating around in our heads – so we don’t commit fully either way and keep trusting scientific enquiry. Do you see the miracles that Jesus
performed as acts of archaic “enchantment” or a complete control and beautiful manipulation of the physical laws of
Nature to demonstrate his Love and sovereignty (?)
I also deeply agree essentially with what David Foster Wallace had said, in that we have been so desensitized,
euthanized even, to the evils of mass consumption, commodification and materialism that are right before us – we are swimming that corpulent river of $hit everyday and hardly even notice anymore! White noise, like so many words.
You say -
“But without a robust vision of spiritual slavery and bondage in the hands of progressive Christians Christus Victor
theology is a non sequitur, it just doesn't make any logical or theological sense.”
You’re right, but I think that the reality and acknowledgment of “spiritual slavery and bondage” in person’s life,
as well as in the world, is inversely proportionate to the transforming victory and joyful deliverance that one experiences when you know in the deepest part of your inner being, the presence of Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It is a reciprocal understanding! With out the indwelling of the Spirit, you’re simply no able to fully tune into that channel.