This last spring at ACU we hosted a scholar who made a series of presentations about same sex attraction, with a particular focus on how a Christian university like ours should address the issue in the lives of our students.
After one of the presentations one of my colleagues asked me what I thought of the talks. I responded, "Pawn to King 4."
You might not know anything about chess, but "Pawn to King 4" is the most common opening move for White who starts off the game.
The point of my metaphor was that once the game opens with Pawn to King 4 the game is set upon a certain trajectory. A different trajectory than if White had made a different opening, say, Pawn to Queen 4 (1. d4 rather than 1. e4). King pawn openings are different from Queen pawn openings, and there are numerous other choices as well (for example, I like the English opening, 1. c4).
The point I was making about the presenter was that, once he deployed his opening assumptions about the bible and sexuality the rest of the talk, while very good, was fairly predictable. Once I saw his King Pawn opening I knew where we were going.
I think a lot of theology is like this. Pawn to King 4. You start with a certain set of premises and then work from there. But a different theologian might open with a different set of assumptions. Consequently, her game goes in a different direction.
In a related way, sometimes I think theology is kind of like geometry. For example, if you assume Euclid's fifth postulate, the parallel postulate where two parallel lines are assumed to never touch, you get Euclidean geometry, the math of flat space. But if you reject the parallel postulate and assume that parallel lines can touch, you get Non-Euclidean geometry, the geometry of curved space (the math, incidentally, that Einstein used to solve the equations of the warped spacetime of General Relativity).
The point is, sometimes I think of theology like Euclidean and Non-Euclidean geometry. Some theologians assume the parallel postulate, like some play Pawn to King 4. Other theologians reject the parallel postulate and play Pawn to Queen 4. Two different geometries. Two different chess games. Two different theological positions.
Do these observations have any practical relevance to non-theologians? I think so.
If you haven't noticed, people disagree a lot about religion. And sometimes those disagreements get nasty. Recently, however, in my discussions with Dr. Kirk about universalism, many have commended us on the civil and curious tone of the conversation. Why has this been the case?
I think it has to do with the fact that we're aware that we are playing different opening moves. Dr. Kirk is playing 1. e4 and I'm playing 1. Nf3. Neither is right or wrong per se. One is more traditional and orthodox. The other is less common and heterodox. Each has strengths. Each has weaknesses. But after the moves have been played we can sit back and enjoy the artistry of how the game unfolds from those starting points. For each chess opening has its own interior logic. And lots of hidden surprises.
In short, it's fun to watch how people play the game. And you learn a lot from watching.
I'm not suggesting that Dr. Kirk and I are theological grandmasters. (Well, he is, he's a professor of New Testament. I'm a theological hobbyist.) What I'm trying to say that theological dialogue becomes possible if we can sit back and enjoy watching the game unfold. To appreciate the internal logic of a system that is different from our own. True, you'd never open your chess game in this manner. But you can study and appreciate the way this alternative opening moves the game into configurations you've never seen, wrestled with, or considered before. More, it allows you to get out of a "right vs. wrong" frame where you can start having interesting conversations like "Now why did you make this move? Oh, I see. That's interesting, I never would have thought about that. Still, what about his line of attack, shouldn't you be looking at that as well?" And so on.
For example, I don't agree with Reformed theology. I don't like its opening moves. It's too Euclidean for my Non-Euclidean tastes. But I get the internal logic of Reformed theology. I understand its assumptions and how those assumptions work together to explain Scripture and the Christian experience. Reformed theology has a beautiful structure with great appeal to many. It's a Pawn to King 4 theological system that I can appreciate. I just don't open the game in the same way.
I guess the natural response of some will be to suggest that there is a "right" way to open a chess game. Obviously, given my metaphor, I'd disagree. The game has too much history, too many players, too many epic contests, and too much left to be discovered to believe that there is one and only one correct opening. Theologically speaking, if we always had to play Pawn to King 4 how could Fisher have surprized Spassky in Game Six with 1. c4?
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Richard Beck
Welcome to the blog of Richard Beck, author and professor of psychology at Abilene Christian University (beckr@acu.edu).
The Theology of Faƫrie
The Little Way of St. ThĆ©rĆØse of Lisieux
The William Stringfellow Project (Ongoing)
Autobiographical Posts
- On Discoveries in Used Bookstores
- Two Brothers and Texas Rangers
- Visiting and Evolving in Monkey Town
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On the Principalities and Powers
- Christ and the Powers
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- The Preferential Option for the Poor
- The Political Theology of Les MisƩrables
- Good Enough
- On Anarchism and A**holes
- Christian Anarchism
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- Wink on Exorcism
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- A Boredom Revolution
- The Medal of St. Benedict
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- "Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?"
- "A Home for Demons...and the Merchants Weep"
- Tales of the Demonic
- The Ethic of Death: The Policies and Procedures Manual
- "All That Are Here Are Humans"
- Ears of Stone
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Experimental Theology
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- Empathic Open Theism
- The Victim Needs No Conversion
- The Hormonal God
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- The Satanic Church
- Mousetrap
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- The Gospel According to Lady Gaga
- Your God is Too Big
From the Prison Bible Study
- The Philosopher
- God's Unconditional Love
- There is a Balm in Gilead
- In Prison With Ann Voskamp
- To Make the Love of God Credible
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- Advent: A Prison Story
- Faithful in Little Things
- The Prayer of Jabez
- The Prayer of Willy Brown
- Those Old Time Gospel Songs
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- Monday Night Bible Study (A Poem)
- Living in Babylon: Reading Revelation in Prison
- Reading the Beatitudes in Prision
- John 13: A Story from the Prision Study
- The Word
Series/Essays Based on my Research
The Theology of Calvin and Hobbes
The Theology of Peanuts
The Snake Handling Churches of Appalachia
Eccentric Christianity
- Part 1: A Peculiar People
- Part 2: The Eccentric God, Transcendence and the Prophetic Imagination
- Part 3: Welcoming God in the Stranger
- Part 4: Enchantment, the Porous Self and the Spirit
- Part 5: Doubt, Gratitude and an Eccentric Faith
- Part 6: The Eccentric Economy of Love
- Part 7: The Eccentric Kingdom
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Blogging about the Bible
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- "Let My People Go!": On Worship, Work and Laziness
- The True Troubler
- Stumbling At Just One Point
- The Faith of Demons
- The Lord Saw That She Was Not Loved
- The Subversion of the Creator God
- Hell On Earth: The Church as the Baptism of Fire and the Holy Spirit
- The Things That Make for Peace
- The Lord of the Flies
- On Preterism, the Second Coming and Hell
- Commitment and Violence: A Reading of the Akedah
- Gain Versus Gift in Ecclesiastes
- Redemption and the Goel
- The Psalms as Liberation Theology
- Control Your Vessel
- Circumcised Ears
- Forgive Us Our Trespasses
- Doing Beautiful Things
- The Most Remarkable Sequence in the Bible
- Targeting the Dove Sellers
- Christus Victor in Galatians
- Devoted to Destruction: Reading Cherem Non-Violently
- The Triumph of the Cross
- The Threshing Floor of Araunah
- Hold Others Above Yourself
- Blessed are the Tricksters
- Adam's First Wife
- I Am a Worm
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- Let Them Both Grow Together
- Repent
- Here I Am
- Becoming the Jubilee
- Sermon on the Mount: Study Guide
- Treat Them as a Pagan or Tax Collector
- Going Outside the Camp
- Welcoming Children
- The Song of Lamech and the Song of the Lamb
- The Nephilim
- Shaming Jesus
- Pseudepigrapha and the Christian Witness
- The Exclusion and Inclusion of Eunuchs
- The Second Moses
- The New Manna
- Salvation in the First Sermons of the Church
- "A Bloody Husband"
- Song of the Vineyard
Bonhoeffer's Letters from Prision
Civil Rights History and Race Relations
- The Gospel According to Ta-Nehisi Coates (Six Part Series)
- Bus Ride to Justice: Toward Racial Reconciliation in the Churches of Christ
- Black Heroism and White Sympathy: A Reflection on the Charleston Shooting
- Selma 50th Anniversary
- More Than Three Minutes
- The Passion of White America
- Remembering James Chaney, Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman
- Will Campbell
- Sitting in the Pews of Ebeneser Baptist Church
- MLK Bedtime Prayer
- Freedom Rider
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- Civil Rights Family Trip 1: Memphis
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- Civil Rights Family Trip 5: Montgomery
Hip Christianity
The Charism of the Charismatics
Would Jesus Break a Window?: The Hermeneutics of the Temple Action
Being Church
- Instead of a Coffee Shop How About a Laundromat?
- A Million Boring Little Things
- A Prayer for ISIS
- "The People At Our Church Die A Lot"
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- Washing Dishes at Freedom Fellowship
- Where David Plays the Tambourine
- On Interruptibility
- Mattering
- This Ritual of Hallowing
- Faith as Honoring
- The Beautiful
- The Sensory Boundary
- The Missional and Apostolic Nature of Holiness
- Open Commuion: Warning!
- The Impurity of Love
- A Community Called Forgiveness
- Love is the Allocation of Our Dying
- Freedom Fellowship
- Wednesday Night Church
- The Hands of Christ
- Barbara, Stanley and Andrea: Thoughts on Love, Training and Social Psychology
- Gerald's Gift
- Wiping the Blood Away
- This Morning Jesus Put On Dark Sunglasses
- The Only Way I Know How to Save the World
- Renunciation
- The Reason We Gather
- Anointing With Oil
- Incarnations of God's Mercy
Exploring Preterism
Scripture and Discernment
- Owning Your Protestantism: We Follow Our Conscience, Not the Bible
- Emotional Intelligence and Sola Scriptura
- Songbooks vs. the Psalms
- Biblical as Sociological Stress Test
- Cookie Cutting the Bible: A Case Study
- Pawn to King 4
- Allowing God to Rage
- Poetry of a Murderer
- On Christian Communion: Killing vs. Sexuality
- Heretics and Disagreement
- Atonement: A Primer
- "The Bible says..."
- The "Yes, but..." Church
- Human Experience and the Bible
- Discernment, Part 1
- Discernment, Part 2
- Rabbinic Hedges
- Fuzzy Logic
Interacting with Good Books
- Christian Political Witness
- The Road
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- City of God
- Playing God
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- How Much is Enough?
- From Willow Creek to Sacred Heart
- The Catonsville Nine
- Daring Greatly
- On Job (GutiƩrrez)
- The Selfless Way of Christ
- World Upside Down
- Are Christians Hate-Filled Hypocrites?
- Christ and Horrors
- The King Jesus Gospel
- Insurrection
- The Bible Made Impossible
- The Deliverance of God
- To Change the World
- Sexuality and the Christian Body
- I Told Me So
- The Teaching of the Twelve
- Evolving in Monkey Town
- Saved from Sacrifice: A Series
- Darwin's Sacred Cause
- Outliers
- A Secular Age
- The God Who Risks
Moral Psychology
- The Dark Spell the Devil Casts: Refugees and Our Slavery to the Fear of Death
- Philia Over Phobia
- Elizabeth Smart and the Psychology of the Christian Purity Culture
- On Love and the Yuck Factor
- Ethnocentrism and Politics
- Flies, Attention and Morality
- The Banality of Evil
- The Ovens at Buchenwald
- Violence and Traffic Lights
- Defending Individualism
- Guilt and Atonement
- The Varieties of Love and Hate
- The Wicked
- Moral Foundations
- Primum non nocere
- The Moral Emotions
- The Moral Circle, Part 1
- The Moral Circle, Part 2
- Taboo Psychology
- The Morality of Mentality
- Moral Conviction
- Infrahumanization
- Holiness and Moral Grammars
The Purity Psychology of Progressive Christianity
The Theology of Everyday Life
- Self-Esteem Through Shaming
- Let Us Be the Heart Of the Church Rather Than the Amygdala
- Online Debates and Stages of Change
- The Devil on a Wiffle Ball Field
- Incarnational Theology and Mental Illness
- Social Media as Sacrament
- The Impossibility of Calvinistic Psychotherapy
- Hating Pixels
- Dress, Divinity and Dumbfounding
- The Kingdom of God Will Not Be Tweeted
- Tattoos
- The Ethics of :-)
- On Snobbery
- Jokes
- Hypocrisy
- Everything I learned about life I learned coaching tee-ball
- Gossip, Part 1: The Food of the Brain
- Gossip, Part 2: Evolutionary Stable Strategies
- Gossip, Part 3: The Pay it Forward World
- Human Nature
- Welcome
- On Humility
Jesus, You're Making Me Tired: Scarcity and Spiritual Formation
A Progressive Vision of the Benedict Option
George MacDonald
Jesus & the Jolly Roger: The Kingdom of God is Like a Pirate
Alone, Suburban & Sorted
The Theology of Monsters
The Theology of Ugly
Orthodox Iconography
Musings On Faith, Belief, and Doubt
- The Meanings Only Faith Can Reveal
- Pragmatism and Progressive Christianity
- Doubt and Cognitive Rumination
- A/theism and the Transcendent
- Kingdom A/theism
- The Ontological Argument
- Cheap Praise and Costly Praise
- god
- Wired to Suffer
- A New Apologetics
- Orthodox Alexithymia
- High and Low: The Psalms and Suffering
- The Buddhist Phase
- Skilled Christianity
- The Two Families of God
- The Bait and Switch of Contemporary Christianity
- Theodicy and No Country for Old Men
- Doubt: A Diagnosis
- Faith and Modernity
- Faith after "The Cognitive Turn"
- Salvation
- The Gifts of Doubt
- A Beautiful Life
- Is Santa Claus Real?
- The Feeling of Knowing
- Practicing Christianity
- In Praise of Doubt
- Skepticism and Conviction
- Pragmatic Belief
- N-Order Complaint and Need for Cognition
Holiday Musings
- Everything I Learned about Christmas I Learned from TV
- Advent: Learning to Wait
- A Christmas Carol as Resistance Literature: Part 1
- A Christmas Carol as Resistance Literature: Part 2
- It's Still Christmas
- Easter Shouldn't Be Good News
- The Deeper Magic: A Good Friday Meditation
- Palm Sunday with the Orthodox
- Growing Up Catholic: A Lenten Meditation
- The Liturgical Year for Dummies
- "Watching Their Flocks at Night": An Advent Meditation
- Pentecost and Babel
- Epiphany
- Ambivalence about Lent
- On Easter and Astronomy
- Sex Sandals and Advent
- Freud and Valentine's Day
- Existentialism and Halloween
- Halloween Redux: Talking with the Dead
The Offbeat
- Batman and the Joker
- The Theology of Ugly Dolls
- Jesus Would Be a Hufflepuff
- The Moral Example of Captain Jack Sparrow
- Weddings Real, Imagined and Yet to Come
- Michelangelo and Neuroanatomy
- Believing in Bigfoot
- The Kingdom of God as Improv and Flash Mob
- 2012 and the End of the World
- The Polar Express and the Uncanny Valley
- Why the Anti-Christ Is an Idiot
- On Harry Potter and Vampire Movies
Computers probably will "solve" the game of chess within the next few decades. Then it really would be a case of whether 1. e4 (or 1. d4 or 1. Nf3 or 1. c4 or, gasp, 1. f4) is the best move. While the artistry of the game is a blessing, the ultimate purpose of the game is to win (i.e. achieve checkmate). And every GM knows that.
I think your reflections are generally true. However, there are exceptions. For example, my assumptions about women's roles start on the "complementarian" side of the discussion and my conclusions settle on the "egalitarian" side. It frustrates many on both sides.
Also, "Reformed theology" is an awfully broad stroke. There are big differences between say Piper and Torrance.
Hi
Maybe this is stretching the analogy too far... but I get the impression that its usual to teach children to play chess starting with the "Pawn to King 4" move, then when they have mastered that (and attacking/ defending from that position), go in to other openings ... otherwise its too complicated .... how should we teach our kids about God/ Theology? (All the resources out there seem to me to be the "Pawn to King 4" variety).
> the ultimate purpose of the game is to win (i.e. achieve checkmate)
I thought the ultimate purpose of any game was to enjoy playing it. =)
> how should we teach our kids about God
Man, if you end up with a definitive answer to this question, let me know. I am totally befuddled about this.
Even if the game of chess is eventually solved, I highly doubt we would be able to say that one first move is "better" than another, since the objective assessment of the position after any first move is probably "draw."
Richard, all this time reading your blog I had no idea you were a chess player! This analogy made me smile.
I also see a parallel between chess and theology, most participants are just playing a game. The debate becomes less an exercise in understanding the creator of the game and more a battle to the death, to conquer my opponent, to show MY greatness.
As I recall (haven't played chess in a while), one can learn a lot about chess from failure ("OK, I'm not going to make that mistake again"). This, of course, needs to be supplemented with teaching about the things to do not just to avoid failure but to succeed (castling, crowning, etc.).
I think this is true for children as well, we can teach them all we want but they are going to learn a lot (much to our chagrin) from failure (or doubt).
There was a post on Jesus Creed yesterday about the internet and how kids are exposed to so many alternative beliefs that they need to sort through. The amount of information available on the internet is both a blessing a curse and kids need to be prepared to sift through it and evaluate it. It's no longer sufficient to pour information into kids and have it survive unchallenged forever. Kids need to have the tools to take in new information, evaluate it, incorporate the good and reject the bad. (There's probably a chess analogy here, too; something about not just learning a series of pre-programmed moves, but being able to react to the ever-changing landscape that your opponent presents.)
The object of chess is to checkmate the opponent, and that objective gets played often in theological discussions as well. We've all known someone that you can't talk to because they've got an agenda to prove to you how right they are, and how wrong you are. These people are just not enjoyable to talk to, because you can't have a reasonable conversation with them. They don't respect you enough to ever back off, and do not recognize when they've crossed the line into inappropriate dialogue. But between Beck and Kirk, there's a gracious maturity, and even where they disagree, the object isn't to back the other into an immobile corner, but rather to explore each other's perspectives, and let the rest of us in on that conversation. Even to find common ground. Difference in perspective need not end in bloodshed.
I like where you're heading Richard, I think you'll like what you find if you keep playing out the logical consequences of that thought process.
I think it's really interesting that you zero in on Reformed vs Arminian theology (as opposed to zeroing in on contrasts/comparisons with others --- Roman Catholic, Orthodox, whatever). This juxtaposition seems to be your opening move. My understanding is that Arminius himself was in the Reformed tradition. I consider myself Arminian as well (although in a "soft" rather than "radical" way). It is fortunate for me that this "soft" Arminian tradition is the way I was raised, because it dovetails well with my psychological studies (which you mention as influences on yourself as well). Or, to paraphrase George Kelly (who has sorta become my psychology-hero) "We are free in relation to some things and determined in relation to others." Kelly organizes his Psychology of Personal Constructs around the idea that the way we divide up the constant stream of input from the world determines the way we experience our world and the way we respond within it. Sounds like your chess move analogy ... except it is not only determined by the first move, but by subsequent moves as well. And, "determines" is a strong word, because change is possible although it is mostly really difficult.
Quite frankly, I WANT you to convince me that there is an epilogue to the Judgment of God. I understand that the chess move analogy is just that --- analogy --- but whether God will ultimately reconcile everyone to Himself is not a game. Of course, it is also not something that we can influence ... it either Is or Isn't. But I would like to believe that there is evidence of an Epilogue.
Beautiful analogy.
Too many Christians don't know that each "opposing" theological viewpoint (Arminianism, Calvinism, Universalism, etc.) CAN be fully supported by scripture because their particular church only shows them the ones that support its viewpoint. Sadly, this ignorance results in too much "Your views are not Biblical!" name-calling.While Dr. Kirk has certainly extended a gracious and humble voice in this debate, there are too many self-proclaimed religious experts who consider themselves "Theological Grandmasters" and view those who disagree with them as stupid heretics, unworthy of consideration. In order to have any confidence in our faith we all need to reach our own conclusions, and it is people like these who refuse to acknowledge this, demanding instead that we conform to their theology or "go to hell."
Hello Patricia,
It seems the gracious mature dialogue between Dr. Beck and Dr. Kirk is very rare/unusual. I appreciate how you described it.
At my sister-in-law's funeral last weekend, a former pastor (Pastor X) presided over the service. Pastor X has a PH.d in Theology from Fuller Theological Seminary and wrote a 400 page dissertation devoted to refuting universal reconciliation (while validating the eternal finality of a literal, conscious, tormenting judgment in hell). We have great respect for one another and he has done much for my family. Before being "called" to become a Bible teacher, Pastor X was accepted by Pepperdine University's Law school. Therefore I am greatly over my head when discussing doctine, but not the least bit intimidated. That's a tribute to him - he's a really good guy.
We spoke after the service and Pastor X broached the status of my faith. I told him straight out that every Christian I currently know personally (including my wife) would consider me a heretic at the very least and most likely would label me an apostate. It wasn't the best time to continue the conversation. He offered the "right hand of fellowship" and invited me to get together with him, & have lunch just to talk. I know he genuinely extends himself. But I also know Pastor X will posture himself at the outset of our "dialogue", feeling the need to lovingly correct/reproof me - pulling a backslider out of the fire so-to-speak.
To use the chess analogy (I rarely play it so I'm not qualified to speak in detail of it), a few of my "brothers" including Pastor X, have offered to "fellowship" with me, but have postured themselves (unconsciously) in such a manner as to assume I am doctrinally/spiritually endangered. In these cases, our chess game has already begun in their mind, and they have their initial moves already mapped out. The way I handle it (kind of harsh) is to sweep all the pieces off the board, then kick the chessboard off the table, forcing us to begin a new game from scratch. I make it a point to begin with the first move other than the expected "pawn to king 4". It presents an unexpected shock factor to them. Franky, I am testing to see IF my
brother(s) actually give a damn enough to invest the time and patience to play the game out and see how the game goes.
If they invest that time/care in good faith, even if in the end they disagree, I will know they are a genuine friend and I can trust we will be able to maintain fellowship (friendship). This is my accepted social lifestyle that comes with being an apostate - lol.
Thanks again Patricia
Gary Y.
>The way I handle it (kind of harsh) is to sweep all the pieces off the
board, then kick the chessboard off the table, forcing us to begin a
new game from scratch.
Curiosity piqued. How exactly do you go about doing that?
Hello my friend,
I wonder how Pastor X would react if you said, "You know, we can talk about anything but theological theory. Because we're not going to agree, and I think that if you can't be my friend without my agreeing with you, and every conversation is going to be pointed to that end, then it's just not worth having the conversation at all. I get your point of view, because I used to share it. I know you think you get mine. But you haven't lived the process that got me to where I am. I've got just as Biblical grounds as you do, and God knows you haven't cornered the market on knowing 'context.'"
Just thinking out loud there ...
Perfectly described Patricia.
I could cut/paste exactly what you said above and create a tiny carry on crib sheet in my wallet for all of these situations - it's says exactly what I wish I could get across. In fact, I doubt I will take Pastor X up on his invitation (a very sincere invitation) because of what you described. I'm probably guilty of pre-judging or assuming he will behave in this manner. But at this time, the emotional/mental angst and energy involved in taking such a chance isn't worth it.
Gary Y.
I perfectly understand not wanting to put yourself in the position to be scrutinized, patronized, and judged. You've been through a lot already. I, too, have had to distance myself from family members who are the spiritual twin of your Pastor X, for the same reasons.
.. so tired of square theology (my own amateur) .. checking-my-mate .. chess is for – squares – what happens when sexuality is fluid? .. when moves aren’t squared? .. but flowing? .. how to get beyond – square "unclean" – inside of me? – pawns all, pawns to hard-wired ... "Boys will be boys .. we cheat and we lie .. boys will be boys .. and J. K. Gayle asks, ‘will you [join Cady Stanton]’ .. ? .. and I say, ‘Goddamn Marlene Dietrich’" ... Dietrich less Euclidean, more geometric in Hilbert space .. ~ Jim
http://randomarrow.blogspot.com/2011/07/boys-will-be-boys-we-cheat-and-we-lie.html
Hello Matthew,
Very fair question. The analogy clearly describes one taking on the offensive. I only apply this approach to:
1) MEN only - around my age,
2) who've been Christians for roughtly the same number
of years
3) pastors, music ministry leaders, or men who teach Bible
studies
4) men I've "run with in past ministry life", thus friends to some
degree
Everyone else, I leave alone.
My objective is not to "win" an argument/debate, nor convince
the other party to buy into my conviction. But when I sense I'm being Pharisaically patronized or cornered, I'll go on a very intense offensive, aggressively pushing back.
I'll play along with their doctinal flavor (I was where they still are, so I know their convictions pretty well) while presenting them difficult rhetorical (and unanswerable) questions.
Examples:
Past music ministry mates who really want
me to join them in a serious (non-ministry) band situation -
(when they patronize or play spiritual one-upsmanship):
I'll call out their hypocrisy of dismissing my backsliden-ness, thus compromising their convicitons just to play with me. I'll challenge them to apply Scriptures which call for discipline and excommunication of myself - an unrepentant brother.
If one implies I am an apostate or a deceived unbeliever:
I'll Scripturally re-iterate the centrality of Christ, His diety, Who He is, and His COMPLETE work - while pointing out how much they actually trust their own righteousness. I'll expose their spiritual arrogance and presumption, asking them if they really care about those who they allege will burn for eternity.
I've rambled on too much already, but I hope this illustrates my over-the-top chess analogy on steroids. Sorry if this falls short.
Thanks Matthew
Gary Y.
>I hope this illustrates my over-the-top chess analogy on steroids.
It does, thank you. =)
Competition can be friendly. Persons with competing views can value the pursuit of the best answer more than protecting themselves from the possibility of having a mistaken answer. A person who loves playing chess wants to be competitively challenged by her opponent.
At a switchback in a canoe race last Saturday I faced the team behind my boat and called out, "You'd enjoy yourselves more if you slowed down!" Someone replied, "No, we'd enjoy ourselves more if we caught you!" I cackled a laugh of delight between breaths and thought, "My kind of people!"
I guess I'd like to make the distinction that the rancid turn that theological (and many other) debates can take is more the result of there being heated turf battles playing out beneath the surface than that simple exchanges of opinions with the hope of sorting through to the best ideas is necessarily fraught with ill will.
Just a quick insertion here ... your "solution" is exactly what my grandmother (a Baptist) and her best friend (a Church of Christ) did. And they had not only no theological education, neither of them had a high school education either. They just agreed to disagree, to love each other through thick and thin, and not to talk about it. I always found that a little bit sad (if God is a big part of your life, that's leaving a lot out if you agree not to discuss the subject), but I think they prayed for each other and respected one another's faithfulness to God, so it was functionally a very happy arrangement.
Hi Kim, That's interesting that it really worked for them. The key aspect between your grandmother and her best friend is that they were indeed friends, with whom love and respect were factors. Whether they discussed or not, I'm betting they lived out their faith in faithfulness, and that probably looked like love. Those whose objective is only to conquor your opinion through argument aren't really friends, and power, not love, is exponent of that equation.
Might take some time...I won't know whether I've found the answer for sure until my kids are in their eighties .... but theres a book that I found today on the internet that looks interesting "Getting Your Kids Through Church Without Them Ending Up Hating God" .... maybe thats what I should be aiming for ....
Thanks for the link Candeux
Ok, I held out as long as I could, but I am a mathematician:
"if you assume Euclid's fifth postulate, the parallel postulate where two parallel lines are assumed to never touch"
Not true. Parallel lines never touch, in any of the geometries. Euclid's fifth postulate says, in essence, that if you have a line and a point not on that line, there is ONLY ONE line through the given point that will be parallel to the first line.
Others, in the 1700's, questioned this with "many" i.e. infinitely many (the geometry of the universe, if you will) or none through the point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry if you want some more details and pictures.
Your point works regardless.
Richard, that hard push on economics that I gave you on Two Friars came courtesy of Ken Rogoff (former IMF’r) – a master chess player – analogizing computerized chess cheat-catching schemes to our economic wanna-be-recovery. Rogoff has a great computerized chess analogy, waxed here ... ~ Jim
http://randomarrow.blogspot.com/2011/07/kenneth-rogoff-ramps-technology-to.html
Have you ever played "Chess 360," invented by Bobby Fischer? Seems like something Jesus would have liked, but some of the Pharisees not so much. Obliged, daniel.
ps i play at several online sites let me know if you do and we cousd hook up.
Gary, My curiosity has gotten the better of me. Why do you only apply this "technique" when interacting with men? I suspect that it has something to do with the prescribed role of women in the tradition that you are coming out of --- but I don't want to put words in your mouth.
A few weeks ago, after a particularly rousing discussion on the death penalty in our Sunday School class, the teacher turned to my husband and (very jokingly) said that next week we would be discussing female submission in the church. ... in a tradition where such a comment can be automatically understood to be a joke, the idea that confrontation should be limited to men is foreign to me.
Euclid's fifth postulate is a bit silly. Light particales travel at different speeds.